Igor Umansky: at the head of fraud in the defense sector was the closest business partner Poroshenko

In financial circles, Igor Umansky was called a star boy. He was the youngest (26 years old) Deputy Secretary of State of the Ministry of Economic Affairs and European Integration in 2001–2003; in 2009–2010 – Acting Minister of Finance of Ukraine; in 2014–2015 – First Deputy Minister of Finance of Ukraine; until March 2018 – freelance adviser to the President of Ukraine. Public People magazine spoke with Umansky.

Igor Umansky Photo: Facebook Typewriter

Commenting on your voluntary withdrawal, you said: “The policy now being pursued by the government in this area does not agree with my vision.” And what exactly were your differences with the president?

Formally, there was no disagreement. I had suggestions for the financial sector. As an example: in the loan portfolio of banks ~ 53% of problem assets that do not work, but generate a loss, and it cannot simply be written off. But if a private bank somehow can sell them, then state banks from the Ministry of Finance received additional recapitalization several times a year - for the most part state banks are not able to cover these losses for the time being. I had suggestions on how to correct this situation at the legislative level.
And the second - on the Deposit Guarantee Fund. He turned out to be functionally incapable of working with so many banks in liquidation - after all, they “laid down” almost a hundred banks, dropped them at the disposal of the Fund. And this is a great job. Today, the Fund does not sell assets, but a ticket for war, that is, you are not buying a building, but are buying the right to claim this building. This is a completely different selling item. I had suggestions how to simplify the work of creditors and protect their rights. But these were sentences to emptiness.

How did this turn out for the country?

The failure to resolve such questions is “the problems of the Indian leaders do not care.” After the “bankopad”, the foundation tried to build some kind of work model. In the end, they reached a clear public model, called the sale ProZorro, although this has nothing to do with the ProZorro. But you need to understand that there was an open war between the National Bank and the Guarantee Fund. The National Bank in this case acted extremely cynically.

The war for influence or money?

It is the same. The National Bank imposed two a la American exchanges on the fund, through which sales should be carried out, controlled redistribution of assets "in the right way." But their work approaches shock even sophisticated cynics. Their acceptance system is incomprehensible and opaque. Their conditions - 10% commission - there is no such thing anywhere on the market.

And why "a la"?

There were journalistic investigations, public scandals - the real beneficiary of these exchanges is supposedly one of the functionaries of the Presidential Administration. Approximately 510 billion UAH got into the Guarantee Fund. This means that the business has lost 510 billion UAH of assets. And this is after the annexation of the Crimea and the loss of Donbass.

That is, not including these areas?

Including collateral and there, but not only. 510 billion from the business just taken away. We are told about corruption, but why is it needed at all with such “legal schemes”? If you put 10% from sales - this is your commission, and you are just a platform and you do not have real sales costs, but you have 10% of the value of the asset. We were told about international experience, that foreign investors will come to us, they will believe these sites, and they will not believe others. So, no foreign investor came to these sites. NO ONE! We lost two years, and normal sales began only six months ago. Today, a foreign investor looks at Ukraine like a monkey with a grenade. There is no domestic investor. The policy of the National Bank is to minimize lending, since, in their opinion, active lending is the impetus for inflationary processes. And we have the most important thing - to prevent inflation. But the fact that this is done by sinking the economy - the National Bank does not even hide it. The domestic market is empty, there is no place to take resources. That in itself is a disaster in the state policy. And here we have a closed situation: there are no resources, and the number of assets is selling huge.

To whom are the assets sold?

I think time will tell. I hardly need to voice these names. For this there are specially trained organs. Although the market is an open secret - everyone knows who works and in whose interests. But this is a particular, though important. The key is the disastrous consequences of improperly defined goals and objectives at the macro level.
Today, the National Bank is the main cause of low business activity. He is doing everything possible and impossible that the hryvnia does not work, lending does not occur, allegedly affecting inflation. Paradox.

As I understood, you informed the president about all this. AND?

At first, all this was supported, approved and ... everything.

Talked and forgotten?

Something like that.

You have puzzled me with information about the National Bank. There are no sensible economists?

Probably there are other tasks. The National Bank and the people who work there have not yet realized one simple thing: although it is called the National Bank, its main activity is not economic, not commercial. He is the regulator. Both in the banking market and in the monetary market. However, in most of its activities, the National Bank is repelled by commercial interests. For example, he completely ousted the Ministry of Finance and other financial structures from the debt segment. The National Bank acts as an ordinary merchant, thus harming the economy. Including the state budget, since the Ministry of Finance in the conditions of a sufficiently large deficit cannot enter the borrowing market. Impotence of the Ministry of Finance is amazing. Today, the National Bank behaves as a separate state.

Do we have a legislative procedure for prosecuting financial frauds?

We actively discussed these issues, including with the prosecutor's office. They see this as a violation. But the main problem is that it is impossible to prove the intent and presence of interest. Without this, what can you blame? Is that the economy has collapsed? The fact that people have lost assets? Well it…

Are there literate people around the president who he listens to?

He listens, but makes decisions himself. Probably his biggest problem - he climbs into the smallest details, which are definitely not his level.

According to the latest defense scandal, the investigation was conducted for two years. Did the president know nothing?

Knew and in sufficient detail. He is engaged in defense personally. At the head of the fraud was his closest business partner, so there is no doubt that he was in the subject. In the conditions of war, when our guys are dying every day, working with coefficients on procurement is looting. If all this is proved - it is a disaster.

I was shocked by one of the presented materials - the screen of the monitor screen. That is, this information was not just merged by someone from the close circle of businessmen, but literally one of them. Who do you think is behind this?

Oh, everyone knows that.

What everyone knows is not a fact that is true. The gray cardinal is therefore gray because he is not visible. It seems that the information was specifically held until the election.

Very similar to that. And, I think, this is not the last scandal. So we take the seats according to the purchased tickets, buy popcorn and watch this show further.

How will the scandal affect the elections?

It's hard for me to say, I'm not a political scientist. But he will definitely not strengthen Poroshenko’s position, since the question concerns his close associates. Politics and finance have always been cynical. The first thing that blew my mind was the monetization of the subsidies and their issuance by the cache. Such an economic delusion and such a depth of populism has never happened before. A friend of mine said: “Even Tymoshenko didn’t think of such populism at one time.” Subsidies will be issued in the spring, before the first round, and the second part before the second round. The same with pensions, March - April, in two tranches, we will have the payment of the announced 2 400 UAH. This is called bribing voters at the expense of budget money. Moreover, if we had a surplus in the Pension Fund, so that these payments could be sent, I understand that there is a resource, we pay it. But there is no resource, it does not cope with the existing balance sheets and there is not enough revenue. Moreover, few people know that last year the Pension Fund paid pensions not for 12 months, but only for 11.

In what sense?

The January 2018 of the year was paid from the 2017 funds of the year. But even under these conditions, the Pension Fund managed to increase its debt to the treasury by 20 billion UAH. Our Minsots and the Ministry of Finance tritely miscalculated. And neither Andrei Reva nor Oksana Makarova answered for this.

What funds are used to finance the electoral grids?

Previously, candidates for this spent their black cache. Today, the budget provides a number of manual distribution tools. This is a socio-economic development, money for roads, investment projects. That is, a budgetary resource is being spent on bribing voters according to completely legal schemes.

Russia, Europe and America - in your opinion, which of them is strategically interested in us?

I often go to America, I meet with politicians at a high enough level and I can say one thing: America doesn’t care who will be president. Ukraine is not interested in them, moreover, they talk about it openly. No matter who becomes president, he will still come to them and ask for money. They don’t give any financial resource as support for the elections. Yes, there may be investors in this or that policy, but this is a private story. The same with Europe. As for Russia, I have no doubt that most of the money we spend on elections is of Russian origin.

Everyone has?

Everyone has. At least those who have ratings and significant costs. Because there are also fake projects of promoted workers.

Is China interested in China?

We are very interesting to China. They have a very important factor of personal relationships and personal trust. A year and a half ago, thanks to my work, we reached a number of agreements. China was ready to invest in technology parks. We chose several depressed regions where it was planned to build an industrial park in an open field. Space, instrumentation, aircraft. They pledged to attract about 80% investors. The average cost of each such project was on average 20 billion dollars. I then went to Yatsenyuk, then to Poroshenko, but ... In the words "yes, come on, do it," but in fact ... After all, it is clear that the war in the Donbas will end sooner or later and this region will need to be restored. This project could be successfully developed there.

It was your strategic mistake.

Why?

In the light of the last scandal with the defense industry to end the war in the Donbass was unprofitable.

Well, OK. But the Chinese were ready to invest 20 billion in the Odessa or Kherson region. I would like to look at Putin’s plans to go around the region in which 20 billion Chinese money has been invested. Do you believe he would dare? I am not very. This is a certain guarantee of protection, plus we get a reliable partner. So China is interested in us, but they are not altruists. They are willing to invest to earn.

What do you think about the leader of the presidential election - Zelensky?

Hard to say. I still have not heard from him a single serious message on key issues. For the time being, this is a verbalization at the level of the average man, but not at the level of a politician and certainly not at the level of a professional manager or economist. They are supposedly working on some kind of program that they are supposed to write with people - this is such a populist move “let's write together” that was outdated 15 years ago. During this time too much Ukraine passed and stepped on too many rakes.

This is a calculation for not very smart people?

Yes. A simple thing is obvious to people who think: neither Zelensky himself nor his team have any idea what to do. When there is a vision of what you are going to do, you do not need to appeal to a society that, instead of a politician, has to come up with something. The people have already given the deputy, the president the authority to make decisions and create. They should have a program of actions and decisions. Will it appear for the Zelensky team closer to the elections, will it be announced - life will show. While he looks like a cat in a bag.

Do you think there is a possibility that Zelensky will merge his votes Tymoshenko? At a minimum, the idea of ​​taking it as prime minister was already heard from him.

As far as I know, he is an ambitious person, and one should not forget a simple thing: to form a government, to appoint prime ministers ultimately there will be a coalition, that is, the majority of BP. Here it is necessary to look at the sociology of elections, of course, it will change yet, nevertheless, some configuration of the future coalition can already be made. And, most likely, “Batkivshchyna” and “Servant of the People” will get there with a fairly good result. One by one they will not make up the majority, so theoretically I would not rule out the possibility of unification.

Do I correctly assume that after the elections, if there is a new president, a new redistribution will begin?

This is the worst thing that can be for Ukraine. All the stories of the fall of the economy were associated with redistribution. It is impossible to develop the economy and invest in a business under such conditions. Today, rewriting a business or squeezing an asset is in the order of things. We have one of the main raiders, if not directly, then as a performer - this is the justice system.

Was it easy for you to make a decision to leave power?

Yes. Many of us are eager to get power, but very few people can independently leave power. Most, having fallen into the corridors of power, lose their landmark, they are bringing people in. My influence in the financial sector was quite strong. But when the conflict of interests, professional interests went - I left. This is the third time.

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