Permanent Representative of Ukraine to the UN: The conflict in the Donbass at best will only be able to freeze - ForumDaily
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Permanent representative of Ukraine to the UN: The conflict in the Donbass at best will only be able to freeze

Volodymyr Yelchenko was recently appointed the Permanent Representative of Ukraine to the UN. This position he occupies for the second time, the first cadence came at the end of 90's. From 2010 to 2015, the diplomat worked as the Ambassador of Ukraine to Russia and was recalled to Kiev after the annexation of the Crimea. Now at the UN, he is persistently lobbying for the idea of ​​conducting a peacekeeping operation in the east of Ukraine and exchanging barbs at meetings of the Security Council with Russia's permanent representative Vitaly Churkin. In an interview with ForumDaily, Vladimir Yelchenko explained why he was seeking the introduction of a peacekeeping contingent in the Donbass, and recalled how more than 25 years ago a bottle of Ukrainian gorilka helped change the flag of the Ukrainian USSR to a yellow-blue in front of the UN building in New York.

How did you work in a new place? Have you been in New York for almost two months, have you managed to arrange your life, to improve relations with the team?

In terms of work, there are no questions, it is familiar and understandable to me, but there is still no housing, I live in the Permanent Representation for now, there is a small hotel room there. We have found ourselves in an experiment by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs: starting this year, 5 countries are participating in it, including the United States. Now we are given money for an apartment - and do whatever you want with it. Previously, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs dealt with housing rental issues through its local representative office, but now, according to the new resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers, we must resolve this issue ourselves. In a word, “we wanted the best, but it turned out as always.” The payment “fork” is the same for all states. But the price of an apartment in Washington or Chicago is one thing - it’s one order of magnitude; it’s quite another thing in Manhattan, where the UN is located. And the money allocated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the apartment was enough for housing on Long Island. It's a two-hour drive, and that's not possible with our XNUMX/XNUMX job—essentially, I have to be within walking distance. Therefore, with the allocated money, I found an apartment, but have not moved in yet, we are trying to equip it. The main thing is that the team is here and we got the job done. In the first month, of course, it was very difficult, because everyone arrived at the same time, many everyday problems arose, but even more - work seven days a week. However, now we’ve already gotten involved.

The other day you made a statement: the Ukrainian mission to the UN asks to reconsider the issue of introducing peacekeepers, the figure was 25 thousand people. But the main thing is not the number, but the reality of such expectations. What needs to happen for a decision to be made, given the statements of the militants and the procrastination of this issue within the organization itself?

Neither I, nor the members of my team lose hope that sooner or later such a mission will be deployed. It should be understood, however, that even if such a decision is made, it will take many, many months and will not bring the result that a simple person is waiting for, thinking that the UN will come and solve everything. This is not true. At best, the conflict will be frozen. Of course, this is better than the so-called “cease-fire”, in which all the same one or two people die every day. To achieve this goal, it is worth overcoming the crazy resistance that we have today from Russia, and not only Russia.

The number of peacekeepers is far from a primary issue; the figure announced by our Ministry of Defense is very approximate; such calculations have not been carried out at the UN.

The UN evaluation mission has been working in Ukraine since the end of January. Is there already a report on their work?

Among other things, they had the goal of looking at the situation very carefully, carefully. This mission had no such mandate, but the Secretariat's task is to look ahead. I don’t think they made final calculations, but I’m sure they made preliminary estimates. Our plans include a meeting with members of the mission, we want to listen to their report, but so far we have not seen it. It is still necessary to take into account that their main task was demining, assessing the scale of this problem and understanding why Ukraine is asking for help in this. It was important for us, with the help of this mission, to coordinate all international assistance in this direction. No one can do this better than the UN; they have the most experience in this matter.

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Yelchenko officially handed over his credentials to the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon. Photo: UN press service

This is not the first time you have made a terrible prediction that there will be no peace in the East for a long time. What is the way out, except for freezing at the expense of peacekeeping troops? How to speed up this process, and is there a solution on the diplomatic plane?

Today there is no better way. At a minimum, you need to freeze the conflict to stop killing people. There were cases when the presence of peacekeepers did not stop the conflict. The classic example is Africa, the Republic of Congo, where peacekeeping forces have been 20 for years, and the conflict continues. But, despite the criticism, I regard this tool as the most effective.

Why then are there other protesters besides Russia?

As we say, “not everyone here is delighted” with such an idea. We need to convince. There are several reasons for this reluctance. For some, this is extra spending from the UN budget - it is filled primarily by rich countries; for others, this is a matter of competition with the OSCE: they say, they are already working, why are we there. Although here, of course, the answer is obvious: OSCE monitors are not armed and do not have any rights, only responsibilities. Well, among other things, the question is that if shooting continues there, then there is no one to give security guarantees, which we can fulfill, having additional guarantees about the deployment of peacekeeping troops. But countries do not send UN troops, but specifically their citizens, who could be killed or injured there. And again the circle is closed.

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United States Permanent Representative to the UN Samantha Power is one of the most influential women in the world’s top 100. Photo: Twitter PPU at the UN

Will there be a third “Minsk Agreement”?

The people who wrote them were under crazy pressure, that’s understandable. Today it is easy to say that there should have been 12 points, not 7, and they should have been placed in a different order. But it is what it is, and it must be done. The catch, of course, is the sequence. We think this way, but our opponents think differently. And we can't agree.

Since January 1, practically from your assumption of the post of the head of mission, Ukraine began the term of two-year non-permanent membership in the Security Council. Do you think we hear better?

They hear better. I always joked that there are 15 permanent representatives, and they spend more time with each other than with their families. Constant consultations, endless protocol events - that is, constant communication. Of course, during this communication there is an opportunity to be heard by endlessly repeating the arguments that I spoke about above.

It is also important that there are usually about 50 issues on the agenda, of which about 20 are actively discussed. For each of them, the folk trail does not become overgrown - countries are looking for support that is beneficial to them, this is another chance to remind that we too we need her. And this sometimes helps. For two years you become a more valuable colleague and interlocutor - that's a fact.

What are your main goals for these two years, considering that only two decisions were taken in Ukraine over the previous two years, the rest was vetoed by Russia or not submitted for consideration, since we did not have such a right?

The first thing I determined for myself was to advance the peacekeeping operation as far as possible, to bring the idea of ​​mine clearance to completion, so that the UN Secretariat would take a more active part in resolving our conflict. In addition, the office for coordination and support of the implementation of the Minsk Agreements has not yet been opened; its functions are assigned to the current UN office in Ukraine, but they are loaded with other topics, and we would like to see more efficiency in this matter. That is, besides the peacekeeping operation, there are things that require attention. Depending on how the implementation of the Minsk Agreements progresses or does not progress, assistance may be needed on the now unpopular topic of Minsk-3 or in the implementation of Minsk-2. And for this we will need the Security Council, which at one time approved Minsk-2. I do not rule out that such a need will definitely arise during these two years. We should not forget that the resolution that approved Minsk-2 was proposed by Russia, because we did not have such a right, but now the situation is completely different, and we have a similar opportunity. So there are many plans, and we will seek support in their implementation.

With which of the current permanent representatives do you spend more time than with your family? Who did you meet earlier in your diplomatic career?

Let's start with the Security Council: we have excellent relations with representatives of Great Britain and the United States, something we have never encountered before. The Permanent Representative of Uruguay turned out to be a very pleasant interlocutor and colleague. I have known the Permanent Representative of Japan since 1994, he even remembered how we had lunch in the building on Mikhailovskaya, then the Ministry of Foreign Affairs had just moved, we were both heads of departments of international organizations. If we talk about colleagues not from the Security Council, then among them there are about ten people from those with whom I worked before, in other locations. In Vienna I know the Permanent Representative of Malta and the Permanent Representative of Kazakhstan. By the way, they will apply for non-permanent membership in two years. You can’t remember everyone, but about a third are well-known diplomats.

It is impossible to ignore another permanent representative, the representative of Russia, with whom there were more than strained relations even before the outbreak of war. Actually, we are talking about Vitaly Churkin. In addition to open meetings, you have to meet at receptions in the corridors. What is the relationship with him, and are they anyway?

If we use his own terminology, then we have established working contact; this is his phrase from one of his recent interviews. It seems to me that we had a frank conversation; on my part there was a call to approach everything professionally and not to get personal. But it turned out that this was inevitable, and we have already had several skirmishes and “exchanges of pleasantries” at Security Council meetings. At the same time, I am sure that this should not affect our professional relationship, because we still need to conduct some negotiations. This may not be the case now, but I hope that the time will come when it will become necessary. I am sure that we should not look at each other through the embrasure, because we are diplomats and do our job. He agreed with this, but the “exchanges of pleasantries” that took place do not convince me that he does not bring some personal touch to this. The instructions are instructions, but from his emotions it is clear that he is not holding back.

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In an interview with ForumDaily, a Ukrainian diplomat told why he sometimes has to speak interstitially. Photo: Twitter PPU at the UN

You have said more than once that a diplomat is a person who cannot have his own opinion. How often in your career have you had to compromise your own opinions, given your previous business trip to Moscow? It would be good to hear examples.

Naturally, this happens, I won’t hide it. Here we must remember that every diplomat, especially an ambassador, serves primarily the country, and not the people who appoint him. Unfortunately, we have the opinion that diplomats serve the President, the Prime Minister, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs. But in fact, this is secondary, first you serve your country. And who heads it does not depend on the diplomat. There are instructions that must be followed, you cannot do what you want. A diplomat may have his own opinion, but he must use it very carefully. And under no circumstances should you publicly discord with what the ministry tells you to do; in case of disagreement, you need to step aside. In my practice, there were situations of disagreement both on business trips in Vienna and in Moscow, so I made attempts to convey - with the help of hints and touches in statements - in the language of diplomats this very often happens. I had to speak between the lines; this, of course, is not a diametrically opposed opinion, but it is important to convey certain nuances. I use this from time to time.

Since we remembered about Moscow, what is happening with the Ukrainian embassy in the Russian Federation and, most importantly, with the people who have remained to work there?

We communicate regularly, although there are not many of those who worked with me left. I didn’t hear from them that they were under any physical pressure. But the moral one, of course, is present. Being in a country with which your homeland is actually at war is difficult from any point of view. Regarding living conditions, everything has also changed, everyone moved to live in the embassy, ​​which, from a legal point of view, is the territory of Ukraine, albeit in the center of Moscow. This, of course, also does not add comfort, but in Manhattan the conditions are even worse than at the embassy in Moscow, so it’s a sin to complain. Of course, it’s hard for them, but on the other hand, it’s not easy in Kyiv either. However, after some time, all of them, like me, will have something to write memoirs about. God forbid someone experiences something like this, but if it happens, you should take it as an experience.

Returning to Manhattan: you have already met with the diaspora, with active members of the Ukrainian community in America. What is the function of the Permanent Representation in establishing such contacts, is it true that they are rather fragmented, and can you reconcile them?

This is not news to me, I’ve worked here for quite a long time. Conflict in the Ukrainian community has always existed. To be honest, I was upset that the discrepancies between the old classical diaspora and the new wave became even greater. A lot of young Ukrainians work in the States, in the best companies, even in the UN there are about 40 of them - they got through an open competition, without help or support from the state. Unfortunately, there is no connection between these generations of emigration.

What can unite them, and is it necessary in the context of globalization?

Life and time will fix everything. The old diaspora deserves great respect, I remember my first business trip, when there was no one here yet - they incredibly helped the permanent mission and, practically, created an embassy in Washington. The diaspora gave money, premises, provided some services - whoever helped in any way they could. But today, of course, we need the help and support of young people. There is no need for unifying violence - time will put everything in its place. By the way, in communication with my colleagues, the Poles, it turned out that they had exactly the same problems. I am ready for dialogue with everyone, I am open to everyone, I will not divide anyone, I am glad to see my acquaintances, I am glad to meet new ones.

Next year in America presidential elections, in the UN election of the Secretary General. Who do you think is beneficial for Ukraine in both positions?

It is too early to talk about the Secretary General; there are only a few preliminary candidates; I am sure that the list will increase. While we have not yet engaged in these reflections, this clearly must be a person more independent of the Security Council than the current president and his predecessors. Passivity in resolving the Ukrainian issue very eloquently demonstrated this dependence. Regarding the President of the United States, it is also too early to say, and this is more a topic for our embassy. I think that Ukraine will receive support under both a Democratic and a Republican president.

But the existing candidates have rather big discrepancies in the Ukrainian issue.

There are big differences in the programs, but I worked here under some regimes and under others - we never felt that any of them supported us more or less. It all depends on the general situation in the world than on whether you are a Republican or a Democrat.

You have spent more than one business trip in New York. What did you miss—hamburgers, Central Park?

I love hamburgers, and I have returned to this food here more than once - for some reason they are much tastier here than anywhere in the world. New York was my first business trip, and this is like my first love: the best years and the best memories.

What will be included in the memoirs of the first business trip to New York?

The then permanent representative of Ukraine to the UN, Udovenko, instructed me one day before the arrival of the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Kravchuk to change the flag that hangs in front of the UN building. The flag of the Ukrainian SSR was still hanging, but the flag of Ukraine was needed. I was faced with the need to write a lot of requests, documents, terrible bureaucracy in the middle echelons, which required many approvals and telephone confirmations. It ended with them demanding to bring a sample of the flag, but there was no sign of it. Here, by the way, the community helped. In an hour we sewed two flags of the correct size. But, having finally received all the permits and having two flags, we found out that there is only one person who can hang it, and this is impossible on a day off. A bottle of Ukrainian vodka helped, and the flag hung on the flagpole half an hour before Kravchuk’s arrival.

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