Memory problems and the disclosure of secrets: tapes of Biden's conversations with his biographer have been released
Audio fragments Conversations between 46th US President Joe Biden and his biographer Mark Lewis Zwonitzer were published on July 27 by the right-wing conservative organization Oversight Project. The most interesting moments of these audio recordings are described by CNN.
The audio analysis confirms the findings of former special counsel Robert Hur in 2024: Biden disclosed classified information, exhibited forgetfulness, and continued to hold classified materials after leaving the vice presidency.
The recordings show Biden casually discussing his notes from his time as vice president while showing them to Zvonitser.
On the subject: Biden will release his memoir after the November midterm elections.
"They didn't even know I had this," Biden says, judging by the context, showing his biographer his old notes and using them as reference material in a conversation about foreign policy matters believed to contain classified information. However, the audio itself remains confidential.
The recordings were published by the Oversight Project, a division of the conservative think tank Heritage Foundation. They successfully sued the US Department of Justice to have them released. Biden attempted to block the release, but to no avail. He ultimately abandoned his legal action on July 27, dropping his lawsuits. If you'd like to view the recordings in person, they're available. here.
A Biden spokesman declined to comment specifically on the release of the audio recordings, but T.J. Ducklo, deputy White House press secretary during the Biden administration, said last week: "President Biden's conversations, recorded for a book ten years ago and concerning his late son, are private and were given to the Justice Department under the express understanding that they would remain so. The decision to reverse course and make them public is yet another example of how this administration is using the Justice Department as a tool for political retribution."
In several episodes of the recordings, Biden stumbles as he tries to recall dates and facts during conversations with the biographer, sometimes failing to complete his thoughts.
In one instance, while discussing what appears to be sensitive information that is blacked out in the interview transcripts and muted in the audio, Biden appears to forget what he was going to ask and says, "Oh, my God. I... I can't remember what it is."
When he apparently remembers again what was discussed, he warns the biographer: "Some of this may be classified, so be careful."
In other cases, Biden points to people who may have additional information on the topics being discussed.
Trying to remember the name of one of his economic advisers, he says, "I need to write down names because I keep forgetting them."
Hur's report described Biden as an elderly man "with a weak memory."
Hur ultimately decided not to indict Biden, in part because he cooperated with the investigation, which supported the conclusion that he had not intentionally violated the law, but had acted mistakenly. Biden's age and the state of his memory were also taken into account, including in terms of how a jury might react to such a case.
"Since March 2024, the Oversight Project and the Heritage Foundation have waged a relentless fight to make these records public," the organization said in a statement released on Monday, July 27. "We successfully defeated both the Biden Justice Department and his high-profile private attorneys. These records, which we are releasing today, should have been made available much earlier."
Supposedly classified materials
In one of the released audio clips, Biden tells his biographer that he "just found" classified documents, before laying out the position he took in 2009 when he opposed then-President Barack Obama's decision to send more troops to Afghanistan.
"So that was it. Back then, in early 2009, I'd just found all this classified material. I wrote the president a handwritten 40-page memo arguing against sending more troops to Iraq, meaning Afghanistan, because it wouldn't matter: the day we left would be the same as the day before we arrived," Biden says.
In another conversation with a biographer, Biden also mentions classified information, but it is unclear from the recording what exactly is being discussed.
"And then — and then the next thing I have here is classified," Biden says.
Biden's relationship with Obama
Biden says 44th President Barack Obama was "very angry" with him over disagreements over how to handle economic policy after the 2008 financial crisis.
"I was a truly lone voice when it came to housing, I was a lone voice when it came to the middle class. I thought we had to do a lot tougher than just lock up individuals and bankers," Biden said, adding, "He [Obama] was really mad at me."
He said the administration did not go further in large part because Obama and his circle were "subconsciously" connected to Silicon Valley.
"I think the reason we didn't do more is because—this sounds harsh, but at least on a subconscious level—Barack and his team were tied to Silicon Valley," he concluded. "And people from Silicon Valley didn't like what I wanted."
Biden also said Obama backed away from a "promise" to appoint Larry Summers to the Federal Reserve because he had become a "problematic figure."
"Well, Harvard and women," Biden clarified to Zvonitser. Summers, who served as Secretary of the Treasury under President Bill Clinton and as president of Harvard University, has faced criticism, including for his ties to the late Jeffrey Epstein.
Biden noted, among other things, that during the period when the administration was trying to save the economy, he did not pay attention to “how quickly the economy itself was changing.”
"I wasn't focused on robots, artificial intelligence, digitalization, or Moore's Law. My focus was elsewhere—and I truly believed then, and still believe, that we could bring industrial manufacturing back to the US," he emphasized.
The decision to participate in elections
The recordings include Biden recounting, over several minutes, a lunch meeting with Obama during which Obama offered him advice on a possible 2016 presidential run.
"He said it was my decision whether to run or not. It had nothing to do with the other candidates," Biden recalled.
According to the 46th president, Obama doubted that his vice president could win the party nomination from Hillary Clinton, saying it would be a "very tough fight."
"He didn't actually think it was feasible at the time—that I could go out and get the nomination," Biden explained. "That's how I understood it then."
It's unclear from the recording when exactly the meeting took place, but Biden told his biographer about it just days before the 2016 election—November 3, 2016.
Biden also told the biographer about various meetings with leading advisers where they discussed whether he should announce his candidacy, how to structure his campaign, and when exactly to do so. In the recording, he does not specify the year in which these meetings took place.
"The general consensus was that the question was no longer whether it was possible to run—it was. The question was when I needed to make a statement to be seen as a serious candidate," he concluded.
At another meeting, he said, one of his advisers told him, "You have the ability to bring people together, you have the ability to calm them down. Hillary is divisive, and Bernie is too angry."
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Biden discussed with aides the challenges he would face as a candidate, and one mentioned his reservations as an obstacle to overcome.
"The slip-up problem is like a virus. It can lie dormant, but the moment you slip up again, it's immediately remembered," Biden admitted, apparently reading from his notes.
"I can't read my own handwriting," he said.
The 46th president at one point in the recording.
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