Leonid Parfenov: “Finally forget about the “fifth point”

The premiere of the final part of the “Russian Jews” trilogy, “After 1948,” will take place in the United States. It was this year that the head of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, Solomon Mikhoels, was killed by state security and a new campaign of the Soviet government’s struggle against the Jews began. But there are no fewer Jewish superstars in the USSR: Botvinnik is the main chess player, Raikin is the main comedian, Plisetskaya is the main ballerina, Galich and Vysotsky are the main bards.

See the film and talk with Leonid Parfenov viewers will be able to February 24 in Miami February 25 in Boston, 1 March in Washington и 2 March in New York. Parfenov’s tour of American cities takes place as part of the Cherry Orchard festival with the support of the Genesis Foundation.

About who the “Russian Jews” are and why Russian journalist and documentary director Leonid Parfenov dedicated a series of films to them, ForumDaily learned from him personally.

For those who have not seen your trilogy, tell us how you explain the transition from the stage of Judophilia, the period when the USSR fought against anti-Semitism, when Jews were the personnel resource of the Bolsheviks and played an important role during the Second World War - we know that more were called upon 600 thousand Jews - before official Judeophobia in the late 1940s and the appearance of the famous fifth count.

The global shift, apparently, is a mutation of the Soviet project: internationalism, dreaming of a world revolution, is over, and the Soviet empire is being established. It’s like the same Russian one, only under a hammer and sickle with a star. And with the previous mobilization of the population’s loyalty to the authorities around “true Russian patriotism.” And the Jews, they say, have double loyalty - they are, if anything, not Soviet citizens, but children of an ancient people with the most influential fellow tribesmen in America, “enemy country N1” and with their state of Israel, which Soviet propaganda presented as a “US puppet.”

But this is all logical reasoning. Since we are talking about a totalitarian system, everything very much depends on the personality of the ruler, and he is not frank with his subjects. To what extent this turn of Stalin’s towards “the fight against rootless cosmopolitans” was caused by his personal phobias, to what extent this was affected, for example, by his anger at his daughter Svetlana’s affair with Alexei Kapler and her unsuccessful marriage with Grigory Moroz - no one can appreciate this, this is “black box".

In your film, you focus on the assimilation of the Jews, on their “Russian” choice, if I may say so. But as soon as the Soviet Union opened its borders to the Jews, many Russian-speaking Jews immediately immigrated to Israel or the United States. How do you think, how voluntary was their choice to “be Russian” in the USSR?

Because by that time socialism had reached the point of collapse. And he promised only hardships for his citizens in the coming years. If we talk about Jewish emigration to the USA, as well as about emigration to Germany, then they are no longer national, but economic. It was not Zionism that moved people in these cases, and Jewish origin turned out to be not the reason, but the reason for changing the country.

Russian Germans even lived in Russia for more than “two hundred years” and then also left en masse. Russia once provided opportunities for life and career, but then it stopped. This has often happened in history with many countries.

While working on “Russian Jews,” were you able to discover a new truth that you didn’t know about before?

I take on a film when I know what I would like to share with the viewer. That is, when discoveries have already been made. What perhaps especially struck me about the careers of Russian Jews in all the years that I thought about this topic is the special tradition of choosing the Russian language as a craft. After all, the author of the best manuals on difficulties, stylistics and editing of the Russian language is Professor Rosenthal, Jews are virtuoso translators into Russian from all conceivable foreign languages.

In the film, I especially talk about the professional feat of Semyon Lipkin - it is thanks to him that most of the eastern epics are known to Russian readers. In general, the school is gigantic, and for illustrative purposes I gave only examples from children's literature: Samuil Marshak turned Humpty Dumpty and Robin Bobbin into Russian folklore, Lilianna Lungina turned Carlson into Russian, Boris Zakhoder turned Winnie the Pooh into Russian folklore.

You often mention that we are the last generation to reach the fifth count. Do you think its absence has changed anything or sharply reduced the number of anti-Semites?

Of course it changed, and of course it decreased. National prejudices exist everywhere and always, the point is the extent of their prevalence and influence on public opinion. Anyone who witnessed the Soviet “fifth point” knows that a Tuvan Minister of Defense is a fantasy, this cannot happen. Only Russian. And even the Ukrainian Grechko was written as Russian.

And now no one thinks about Shoigu’s nationality. Like, you can be a Russian Sergei Kozhugetovich, or you can be a Russian German Oskarovich - and no one fears that the German Gref is entrusted with all the Russian money in all Russian former savings books.

What, in your opinion, is the role of Russian-speaking Jews in America, what impact did they have on American history? Do not think to make a film about Russian-speaking Jews in the United States?

No, this is not my topic. I feel Russian civilization as Russian and I understand how it was enriched by everyone who came to it, regardless of the origin of their ancestors. And about the other should be removed by others.

Famous Soviet dissident Natan Sharansky in interview to our publication, speaking about Jews in America, he emphasized the danger of assimilation, which “eats up huge parts of the community.” While working on the film, did you see this danger for Russian Jews?

My project is about the unique experience of assimilation. In the titles of the films, “Russians” is the first word, “Jews” is the second. And Natan Sharansky throughout his entire adult life proved the possibility of throwing away the assimilation experience of his Soviet parents and returning to Judaism. And he gave an interview to our film about this backward movement. We present it as an alternative, and the main content is about the Russian careers of born Jews.

Your son also played the wedding according to Jewish custom. How do you keep Jewish traditions in your family?

My son, Ivan, married under the chuppah, for such was the desire of his bride. Son and daughter-in-law live separately, when they come to visit, daughter-in-law does not eat pork. And in our house there are no Jewish traditions.

I am Russian from the Vologda region, according to the census, the most Russian region of Russia. And in a house - I mean in a country house, not in an apartment - what probably catches your eye most is the collection of Vologda utensils; all our cabinets are painted, pre-revolutionary. There is a category of Jewish friends who especially like to come to us on Easter for Easter cakes and Pancake Day for pancakes.

How personal was the “Russian Jews” trilogy for you?

As much as I am Russian. And I am grateful to one Levitan for the Russian landscape, and to the other Levitan for the Russian voice. Utesov, Bernes, Dunaevsky, Blanter - for the Russian stage. Dziga Vertov-Kaufman - for documentary films, Pasternak, Mandelstam and Brodsky - for Russian poetry.

But also, of course, about the furious Bolsheviks and security officers - Russian Jews among Russians themselves, Russian Georgians, Russian Latvians, and so on. - I remember too. This is all Russian history of the twentieth century.

In which country today is the most difficult to be a Jew?

Please understand that I am not some kind of specialist in Judaic studies. In Russian studies - wherever it goes. Maybe in Saudi Arabia - how should I know which country is the “record holder”?

In which country is it difficult to be a liberal? Did you personally feel uncomfortable somewhere with your liberal views?

I don't remember this. Beliefs are inside you, something that you cannot change. And what you cannot change if these are really beliefs. This is who you are. How can you complain that life is difficult for you because you are like this and not someone else? Well, fate. I don't complain about my fate.

In your trilogy, you looked at the life of the Jews from a historical perspective. And what role do you think the Jews play in modern Russia?

They play, of course, but much less than in the twentieth century. And with a much less pronounced national identity. We are not the Soviet personnel department, we are not judged by the “fifth point”? To be a Jew, you must feel and consider yourself as such. This is not because there was a great-grandmother from Shklov and her name was Dora Abramovna? I have Jewish friends - by ancestral origin - who are Orthodox and even Buddhist. I don’t keep fasts, not even the Great One. And the only comrade who calls me a pagan for this is just such a one, with roots from Shklov. This is me, figuratively speaking, actually his ancestors are from Bershad, it seems.

But this is of no interest to anyone and, I suspect, because of my project it is more interesting to me than to him. Who can tell who in Moscow Babylon, and even in the cosmopolitan creative, business and media community? But it is a meaning-forming style and in many ways determines trends for everyone else. Same with any nationality. The director of the project “Russian Jews” and all my recent films is Sergei Nurmamed. Probably the best professional in Russian television documentary. He inherited an Azerbaijani surname from his ancestor in the male line. And what? And if it were for women, I wouldn’t have gotten it. And how does this affect my friend and colleague Sergei Evgenievich?

When you talk about Russian Jews, you also speak about those born in Ukraine and Belarus. Why do you refer them to the Russian Jews?

For the natives of the Russian Empire, such a division did not exist - everything was Russia. And even later, geography was not the main thing. Semyon Gudzenko is a Jew, a native of Kyiv. He wrote in Russian, he is a Russian poet, his “You don’t need to feel sorry for us, because we wouldn’t feel sorry for anyone either” is the most piercing Russian poem with which the second film “Russian Jews” ends. We are not talking about the place of birth, but about who the person was in life.

You identify three large groups that influenced Russian history - Russian Germans, Russian Georgians and Russian Jews. What about the “Russian” Russians? What is their role?

It means you didn't understand anything. This is all Russian civilization. At one of the St. Petersburg premieres about these three nations, a seemingly indicative example occurred to me: Lev Abramovich Dodin, Alisa Brunovna Freindlikh, Oleg Valerianovich Basilashvili - these are great figures of the Russian theater of Leningrad-Petersburg.

Add to the list, say, the purely Russian Nikolai Akimov and Yevgeny Lebedev, the Ossetian Gergiev, the half-Georgian Tovstonogov - and who will stand out from the crowd? Or are you talking about the “fifth point” again? So he’s been gone for a long time, finally forget him.

Where can I see the full trilogy today?

For now - only in cinemas in those cities where the premieres will take place - and then only of the third film. This is such a tour. Now the stage of “hall” distribution of “Russian Jews-3”, in Russia I presented its screenings in several cinemas in Moscow, St. Petersburg and Yekaterinburg, then there were London, Kyiv and Tel Aviv, and now here are the cities of the USA. After the television broadcast in Russia, the entire trilogy will become available on the Internet.

You can learn more about Leonid Parfenov’s project from ForumDaily materials “10 facts that we learned from Parfenov’s second film about Russian Jews" and "Leonid Parfenov shot a large-scale trilogy about Russian-speaking Jews» The film trailer is available at this link: trailer. And on the women's portal ForumDaily, WOMAN.ForumDaily, you can find out about news from Parfenov’s personal life - “Leonid Parfenov first became a grandfather«.

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