How is gay from Kazakhstan in New York

Alexander Lipovtsev was born in Astana, but already in 19 years he decided for himself that he would not stay in his native country. Now he is a social worker in New York, claiming that in the US gay can live a completely normal life.

Emigration was associated not only with his unconventional sexual orientation, but also with a bright cultural difference between the two countries. In his interview to the publication Esquire Alexander spoke about how he realized his singularity, as well as about the life of gays in Kazakhstan and the United States.

Are you born in Kazakhstan?

Yes, I was born in Astana, more precisely in Tselinograd. Almost all his life spent there. In 19 for the first time, I went to the USA on an exchange program for a summer camp for three months. And in 22, I managed to move to the US for permanent residence.

Where did you study in Kazakhstan?

I graduated from the Gumilyov University, faculty of foreign languages ​​in Astana. I came to the USA with a good knowledge of English. In Astana, I managed to work as a translator, so with knowledge of the language everything was fine.

Tell us how you lived in Kazakhstan?

In Kazakhstan, life was normal. I can not complain about the living conditions. But I always wanted to leave Kazakhstan from the very young age. I do not know why. I wanted to live in an English speaking country. Therefore, the choice of language as my profession was deliberate - I understood that the language would help me to leave. I still can not explain what caused it. Perhaps in Kazakhstan I felt like a bit of a “black sheep”.

Due to the fact that you are of Slavic nationality?

No, not because of nationality, it is a question of concepts, culture. I always had American friends, they were Peace Corps volunteers. I can not explain why, but I was drawn to the Americans. And I left before people began to actively leave the country. He left consciously and forever. Although there were no special reasons for emigration - I had a fairly good job in a British organization that sent volunteers to developing countries, which is Kazakhstan. They were engaged in improving the work of social structures, and this was my first experience in social services. I helped a volunteer who was 50 years old. She helped the social workers of Tselinograd Akimat, and I was assigned to her by a translator, but in the end I also worked as a program coordinator.

Your earnings were probably small?

Then my salary was 200 dollars per month, and it was several times more than my mother, a nurse.

In one of your previous interviews you said that you learned about your sexual orientation in 19 years. Almost all of us had first love at school, didn’t you?

My story is different from most stories in Kazakhstan. I first came to the United States in 19 years, and this is exactly the age when a person begins to finally realize his sexual orientation. In this sense, I was lucky. Just at that moment I began to realize that I am a person of gay sex, because I am attracted to people of my gender.

In 19 years at the subconscious level, I had the opportunity to express myself in the atmosphere and environment of people who absolutely do not care. People perceive you as a normal, adequate person.

I can not say that at that moment I decided that it was mine and I didn’t need anything else. In 20, I had the experience of dating a girlfriend, after which I finally realized that I feel more comfortable in the company of a male.

Does the company mean sex?

Yes, there was sex, which once and for all confirmed my orientation to me. After returning home in 19 years, I knew that I would go back to the US next summer. Therefore, the period of winter and spring in Kazakhstan was for me a period of waiting to return to America. I spent three years in a row going to the USA for the summer. The Kazakhstan period was for me a transit period.

I had a friend in Astana, but I already knew that I would not stay in Kazakhstan. In 22, I told him that I was leaving for 18 months, so that it was clear to me and to him that I most likely would not return back.

So you met with a young man in Kazakhstan?

Yes. I came to Kazakhstan several times after this, we always met, talked. But the last time I came to Kazakhstan, we didn’t even call up, we had nothing in common.

How did his life in Kazakhstan?

I do not know how his life turned out, because we didn’t communicate for a long time. I think he still works in Astana. He has his circle of acquaintances, and he is probably doing well.

He got married?

He did not marry. I do not know all the details, but he had a boyfriend, they were together, and everything was fine.

In Kazakhstan, I have quite a few friends in the gay community, and I cannot say that they are openly oppressed, always and everywhere. That is, if you are a person of non-traditional sexual orientation, that is, your own niche, for example, in Astana, where if you don’t stick out, you won’t be touched. I have many acquaintances who live in couples and families and do not complain about life at all. Although there are people who are subjected to some kind of harassment and discrimination.

Did you not feel it in Astana?

As for me, I left too early to feel it. Therefore, I consider my story happier. I "came out of the closet" here in the US. Living in New York, everything is a little easier and you don’t feel like an outcast from society. Yet somewhere in Kentucky, gays are still being attacked. At the moment I feel comfortable in the USA. Here everyone knows about my orientation - both at work and friends. There is no problem with this at all.

And those with whom you communicate in Astana, complain to you about how things are in Kazakhstan?

My social circle is rather narrow, this group of people probably does not fully represent all cultural layers of Kazakhstan. These are already accomplished people who have everything they need, for example, the means to go to Thailand or Spain, to rest there calmly. They have the opportunity to shut themselves off from the negativity that occurs in Kazakhstan.

I can say about Russia, where I also have quite a lot of friends. They complain, they say that everything is just awful and unbearable. A lot of people came to the United States as refugees. Many people write to me about the move.

I recently read a report Human rights campaign about Kazakhstan, in particular about the rights of gays. It is terrible that Kazakhstan began to go in this direction, behind Russia, the same talk about propaganda law, etc. After 14 years of life in the United States, something changes inside, I already consider myself more American than Kazakhstani. Of course, there are some feelings for Kazakhstan, for example, when you see an advertisement Invest in Kazakhstan on CNN. I have a Kazakhstan flag on my desk that I cut out of Kazakhstan chocolate. In many ways, I am proud of Kazakhstan, about how the country is developing, but there are also aspects that are distressing. People do not want to think about them, but it is necessary.

Are there any refugees from Kazakhstan among your acquaintances who left precisely because of the harassment related to their orientation?

I have a fairly large circle of friends. You could say a family of friends. Three of them from Kazakhstan. One guy is here for a work visa. The other two are refugees. They received a residence permit as refugees. According to the graph - harassment on the basis of sexual orientation.

It seems that there are a lot of gays in the USA, there are a lot of them in Thailand, and in Kazakhstan there are practically none?

Yes, it would seem so, but imagine the situation. Here human rights are reserved. I have a partner, we live with him in the same apartment, we can go and sign at least tomorrow. We will be guaranteed the same rights as any other married couple. In Kazakhstan, if a person openly admits that he is gay, what will happen to him?

And what will happen to him?

Surely there will be certain problems. I have a good friend in Moscow who is now waiting for a decision on immigration on the basis of sexual orientation. When he openly said that he was gay, he was immediately fired. Attacks began in the press, at work, he was beaten several times, the door in the house was set on fire.

There are many such stories. I think the same is happening in Kazakhstan. If you read the report Human rights watch, then you can find specific examples, interviews of people who are under attack. It is clear that people in Thailand or the United States feel more open and protected. Here, if you walk with the guy by the hand along the street, then you may not pay attention at all. No one will hooted and shout after you that you are not.

You said that when you first came to the United States, you were surprised that you were adequately perceived. And in Kazakhstan, you were perceived inadequately?

Yes, inadequate. When I came to the USA for the first time, I was wearing screaming pants and a T-shirt, white hair. Here I wanted to be different from Kazakhstan. When I came back to Astana, you remember how people looked at me, poked his finger, shouted after: "This has gone gay." No me did not attack, so I will not say that it hurts when you are different from others, but it was unpleasant. At that time, people did not want to perceive a person who is different from the general mass. Now this is a little easier. Last time I was in Astana two years ago and I didn’t leave the house very much. My friends fussed me, showed Baiterek, but I did not see the city from the point of view of its inhabitants. Rather, I was a tourist, and the tourist perceives everything differently.

So Astana wasn’t a gay friendly city? Or are you just not looking for such places?

Astana is not gay-friendly, but not any Uganda. In Astana there was a gay bar, some special places. But from conversations with friends, I realized that there are two gay worlds. The first one I talked about. There is another layer that can afford not to spin in such places, perhaps it is considered a disgusting layer of the population for them.

There are people who want to go out as gay, but cannot do it for economic reasons or are not yet sure that they need it. Maybe they are married. And there are people who feel very comfortable themselves. They know that they are gay, they do not need to participate in some everyday life, go to public bars, be in a gay party. They have their own private company, which is protected by dating, where you just can’t go. They are found in cafes, they travel together in nature, and they are not propagandists at all. This is the difference in what people see and what they really are.

Do they judge gays by the first category of people?

Yes exactly. They are representatives of the gay world. The second category lives its own life and does not fight for any rights. Because these people have something to lose. When you start fighting for rights, you are on the podium and it’s easy to fall off of it. Suppose a person may have business connections, and then they will say: “Here I am greeting you with my hand, and you are gay. Let us stop working with you. ”

Is there a chance that a person with an open, non-traditional sexual orientation may have a business or political career in Kazakhstan?

I do not think that this is possible now. Someday, after so many years, may be ... For example, in the US struggle for LGBT rights began in 60-ies of the last century, and only now, after half a century have enacted laws that allow gay marriage. In Kazakhstan, people are not yet ready for this. Another mentality plays its part. I think everything is still ahead of Kazakhstan. The younger generation already understands that people are different. The less people know, the more they fear. And because of fear, aggression occurs.

Is everything so rosy for gays in the US? Maybe all gays in Kazakhstan need to immigrate here?

I can not say that gay people in the US are so rosy. Gay people are still being attacked, beaten. Even in New York is not so rosy. Or, for example, transgender rights are not as protected as gays and lesbians. But if you compare the general situation in the world, then gays in New York can live a normal life. You can work without embarrassment to your orientation, start an open relationship. The situation is simpler, but it is not perfect.

It always seems that the grass is greener on the other side. Not everyone here can get settled and live the life that they could live in Kazakhstan. I have never been an activist of the LGBT movement in Kazakhstan, so I don’t have to tell me what could be. I think the atmosphere, the laws are not yet ready to protect the rights of the LGBT community, the press is not so free, people ...

We are now talking about Kazakhstani gays in the United States, because here, too, no one guarantees anything to them?

There are no guarantees. But of those whom I know, not one is eager to return to Kazakhstan. It is easier for them to live here than in Kazakhstan.

What can Kazakhstan gay in the USA miss?

Certain difficulties include differences in mentality and relationships. For example, my partner is French. We have a certain European connection, common concepts. Because I think Kazakhstanis are much more Europeanized than Americanized. Americans are very interesting people, but not everyone can establish relationships with them.

Why?

There are cultural moments. For example, quotes from the movie "Love and Doves."

Does your Frenchman understand them?

No, but he knows “Fantomas” with Louis de Funes, whom all Kazakhstanis know. There are some coincidences that Europeans know, but not Americans. The same temperature in Celsius, and not in Fahrenheit. Americans are peculiar, their relations are more superficial. Kazakh-Russian soul is different, this is the main difference.

What does superficial mean? They are not particularly friendly?

Well, why, they are friends, but, let's say, my Russian-speaking friends are friends in all respects. I can call them at any time and say that I need help. You can just get together, drink tea. With the Americans everything is a bit more official. Even if we are friends, it does not mean that you can come to me at any time, claim something. Of all my friends, I can count on those fingers those who have long-term relations with the Americans.

I have good friends, the Americans, but I can not say that they are friends who are people of the same blood as one history, culture and cuisine. It is easier to communicate with people when there are some nuances that you can talk about in your native language.

For example, my partner stopped going to joint events with my friends, because it is hard to speak English from the point of view of transmitting all emotions and what can be said in Russian.

When you are stuck in American culture, you miss the communication. And everything else - books, music, food - all the material things in New York can be found without problems.

How did you meet your partner?

We met through a friend who introduced us. He said: "I know you, and I think you will be a wonderful couple." We exchanged phone numbers, and after that it all started somehow.

How long has it been?

9 years ago. Now I'm 36 years old.

How did your relationship develop after dating?

We had a good relationship for a long time, but we lived separately. Only a year ago they came together and began to live together. Probably, it is good that we lived 8 for years in different places, because people grind to each other.

Are you going to arrange a joint marriage?

Probably, not. I am not a typical gay man who was given the right to marry and now he must definitely get married. I have many friends who legitimized their relationship. For us, so far, it does not matter. Maybe in the future, if necessary, we will arrange a marriage. If, for example, we want to move to France. I can't rule it out.

What about children?

We do not want children. We talked about this topic. I do not want children, he is older than me and agrees with me. There are enough children in families, his brother has children, my sister, friends. Children for us is not a priority. I have a friend from Russia, he recently adopted a boy and is very happy.

Does he live in marriage?

He does not live in marriage, but adopted the child as openly gay. A child from America. I have a friend who has recently moved in, and they also want children. There is freedom of choice, with this it is now much easier than, say, 6 years ago.

Tell us about your work.

I am a psychotherapist by training and licensed. But at the moment I am engaged in the preparation of medical centers for emergency situations. Let's say everyone heard about the Ebola virus. If a person with this virus enters the center, how will they react and what should they do? We need a specific action plan. Or deal with hurricanes like Sandy. This is similar to the social work that I have done before, we are helping the community.

Is your social circle especially homosexual?

No, completely different and extensive. Yes, I have a gay group, a 8-10 man, with whom I communicate. There are also many friends who do not belong to gay parties in any way. There are older people, they are more of my boyfriend’s friends than mine. There are friends.

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